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Post by Tammi on Oct 14, 2003 22:01:36 GMT -5
Kelli and I got into a DEEP discussion as to the proof of the existance of a "higher being" IE God. She told me to prove to her that there is a God, I told her to prove to me that there isnt. Stale mate. Any thoughts?
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Post by Baloo on Oct 15, 2003 8:30:22 GMT -5
I was thinking about that very thing Sunday night. I happened to come across a show on an Access Channel "Athiest Underground" or something of that nature. Anyway, one of the ladies on there was saying she didn't believe in God because she had never had any proof that he actually exists. Well, not only are we supposed to trust in God to know he's there without 'physical' proof, but I also thought the same as you, "show me he doesn't exist." And for those who say, "Well, why are we supposed to just trust that he's always been here? Something had to have created him.?" Well, think about our universe; it's just been here. Nothing created it. If something did create it, what created that, and so on.... So, somehow, someway, something or someone has always been here, no matter how you want to look at it. Hey Tammi, you might like this link I found... www.blueletterbible.org/
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Post by Sagan on Oct 15, 2003 20:35:42 GMT -5
There is an inherent dichotomy there. You cannot prove a negative. So, as silly as it was for the Bushistas to keep telling Saddam to prove he DIDN'T have WMD's, so is it silly to say "Prove there is no God".
Positives can be proven. So it should logically be possible to prove there IS a God.
I don't have answers to these questions. I try to live as ethically as possible without the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell to guide me. And I think I do pretty well.
If more of us took that angle, I think that faith issues would solve themselves.
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Post by Tammi on Oct 16, 2003 7:49:22 GMT -5
Thanks Guys.
I knew I could count on you to give me some insight.
;D
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Post by Baloo on Oct 16, 2003 8:17:47 GMT -5
Well, if you want proof that God does exist, go to the NICU @ Seton Hospital and ask to see my little girl... granted, due to security reason they won't let you see her, but if they did, all you would have to do is see her take every little breath and you would know[/i] there is a superior being of some sort out there. Even if you don't believe in God, I would think you would have to believe in something. There is no way that a tiny little organism from long long ago became what you and I are today, plus the fish, plus the birds, plus the plants. And, to those who say "I wasn't here when the events of the Bible took place, so I can't believe what it says." Well, how many of us were around in 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue? So, how do we know Columbus actually did this? Because our history books tell us so. So, concider the Bible to be your spiratual history book.
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Post by Jlew on Oct 16, 2003 9:08:11 GMT -5
Interesting Thread......
I remember many years ago as my brother was entering his 2nd year at UT, he took an anthropology class. That year at our family Christmas gathering, my brother informed us all that he did not believe in God because he is getting more information that he did not exist in anthropology 101. Ofcourse, my Mother was flabergasted, and my Father was getting ready to call the Dean. Funny thing, in anthropology you learn about the beginning of time and the beginning of earth as we know it. Religious writings touch on this, but don't go past the exact "where did we come from" deal.
Please don't get me wrong, I have an element of faith, but I truely believe that organized "religion" causes more harm than good in our world. Many wars, mass suffering and death has a direct link to organized "religion" That will continue until the end of time.......
Just my 2 cents.....
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Post by Baloo on Oct 16, 2003 9:18:57 GMT -5
Well, seeing as none of us were here when everything was created, you either have to take the word of God or the word of the anthropologists (?), who are speculating as to how things happened. These historians can tell us how our Universes and Worlds were created, but they can't tell us why (exactly) all these huge beings that used to roam the earth died. I heard Paul Harvey reading about how some Dinosaurs used to do a mating dance on a particular shore line before they would die. If Historians can figure out how a historic bird did a 'jig', then why can't they tell us what GREAT even happened to kill all these massive beings? Until they can answer key questions like that, how are we truly supposed to trust what they write either?
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Post by Jlew on Oct 16, 2003 9:51:01 GMT -5
Babaloo.... with all due respect.....
The teachings of anthropology is based on scientific evidence. ( fossils, etc. )
Not to say that the bible has no evidence, however the bible is based mainly on a story. And that's a christian bible! How must we explain the koran? Or buddist faith? Their writings are much different than mainstram christianity....how do we know what's really "real"?
Anthropology explores the earth itself, explores the craters on the moon, explores fossils and things found to actually help make a determination as to what happened.
The teachings of religious faith has many different stories due to different faiths..... it's what YOU believe in, not what people tell you. I think that organized relgion is basically a sham...I have my own belief system, and I do believe in the power of a higher being.
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Post by Baloo on Oct 16, 2003 10:00:38 GMT -5
What time do the services begin at Mt. Jlew's Temple? I completely agree that it's hard to know exactly which faith to believe, so I guess I'm saying I don't understand how people can say they don't believe there is a higher being at all. Something had to have created all of this. As for the anthropology, it's based on educated... guesses, if you will. None of those people were here when all of this begin. So, yes they are making educated guesses, but they are still just that, guesses and speculation. I know I stated this in my last post, but I just don't understand how they can make these educated decisions, except for the biggest one; the ultimate demise of these great creatures that used to roam the earth. They know what color they were, how their skin moved, how they mated, what they ate, where they lived, if they had hair, what color the hair was, if they ate other animals eggs/babies; but they can't tell us why they ALL died at the same time. I just don't understand.
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Post by Jlew on Oct 16, 2003 10:22:23 GMT -5
They did tell us why they died all at the same time.... the Ice age wiped them all out, we know we had an Ice age because we can actually piece together our continents like a jig saw puzzle. Focus: I think that religious faith should be based on what YOU believe, not what the "christian" bible tells you. The "christian" bible tells a story as does the Koran and the Torah. These stories have different "teachings" if you will. It's what you truely believe in.... a higher being. As far as scientific evidence suggesting something other than religious "intervention" is a very touchy subjectfor some folks... however... there are some things that we would have never known without science....... how would we have known about Ramses and the eygptians without science? We dug up these priceless artifacts from the ground... studied the bones....studied the artifacts.... just as we have fossils and the moon. Science is not always 100% but I think I might just give it a little thought........
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Post by Sagan on Oct 21, 2003 11:28:46 GMT -5
All I know is that I can go to a museum and talk to anthropoligists and archaeologists, who may disagree on details, but have consensus on fundamentals.
Whereas God supposedly talks to me through Billy Graham and the Pope and Jerry Fallwell and Osama Bin Laden and priests, imans, rabbis and ministers by the score. NONE of whom agree even on the fundamentals.
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